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I think when the shit hits the fan - we will enter a barter system based on individual assessments and not a gov. approved value system. We saw this in the great manufactured depression 0f 1929 and again in the created banking/housing crisis in 2008. A dentist I know exchanged his service for a gun and other things he needed. When my Dad was growing up during the depression, you could get medical care for a chicken - there was little money where he lived and stores accepted trade. If you were unable to pay but good for it was noted on the due bill or tab which could be paid off with cash or commodities or services. We can't anticipate all possible scenarios - but humans have been around longer than the bankers - their plan was written hundreds of years ago and adjusted where needed. It was and is guided by Satan and installed with fear and control- ours has to be guided by God and carried out with faith, wisdom, and discernment. Discerning truth from lies and the intent of what we are being told is vital to survival. We may not have the answers - but unless we ask the questions and try to understand things instead of just accepting what we are told or things we find it convenient to believe, we will continue to be complicit in their plan, IMHO.

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It is not banking that is the problem. It is usury. And those who sponsor usury are the descendents of Cain, so I would say that they are as old as each other.

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All planned…😉 = debt slaves

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Could you please give a brief and simple definition of usury and a brief and simple explanation of what the alternative is? I see people make statements like yours and I’m not knowledgeable enough to know what kind of monetary system would be a viable alternative. Just if you have a minute. Thank you

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Hi Brandy, think Ebenezer Scrooge. Money changers. Loan sharks. I like to help folks understand more about how the world works. So watch this amazing course by a guy who knew too much about this.

"Connecting the Dots (FULL) - How the Financial World Will Collapse (1991 Lecture at USC) documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvZodEOdvCA&list=PLVIssNCZbKsNugL131Ibvo23u_UhPWaun&index=42

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Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out when I can.

I’m not defending predatory lending, or all the derivatives that banks were using to create value out of thin air. But, at the same time, if you don’t have interest, how does that work? How do people get ahold of borrowed money without crashing the system if they default? Do you have a few sentences to explain an alternative? Just really curious. And I will check out the link soon but I would love a simple explanation in the meantime.

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Hi Brandy, good question! My observation and experience is my first credit card, JC Penney, was obtained in 1976. Prior to that, stores had "lay away plans." Also, there were Savings Stamps our families saved and you saved up enough to buy stuff. Plus, banks were kinder back then; they offered high interest rates on savings accounts. I think we're all headed for the Middle Ages. The bad news is feudalism. But the good news is guilds and Christendom. Back then, going into debt was only for the aristocrats, maybe? The banksters, the money men, are very shrewd. I read somewhere that they planned to make borrowing money so easy for us Lilliputians so they could, and have, reap the money from the debt. They made home ownership and college education loans very, very accessible.

Also, I read a quote somewhere that they designed their financial magic to be too complex for the average person to grasp -- so true in my case, until the last several years.

Another source for you is something folks are talking about lately. "The Great Taking" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIoGu692a64.

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oh boy, wanna piss off a Normie? send 'em The Great Taking video! a long time friend once told me: "don't ever send me ridiculous conspiracy shit (his word) like that again!" (sound of one head exploding)

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Brandy - usury is borrowing with interest as opposed to borrowing with no interest to pay. What the connection is to Cain is I have no idea.

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That’s what I thought about the definition of usury but I don’t understand any sort of practical application of borrowing with no interest. Who takes the risk of having people not pay them back?

If I were in a position to loan out money, and I gave 100 people $100,000, and three of the borrowers defaulted, how would I recover the loss?

Or same scenario with government loaning out money or bankers… I don’t see a realistic way to loan out money, without interest, that wouldn’t destroy the person or entity that is making the loans.

Btw, I’m not saying the current system that we have is good (private profits and public losses).

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The issue is that banks who are giving loans to today are taking no risk because they are not actuality lending or parting with anything. It's fiat currency - promises to pay backed by nothing. Or put differently when we borrow money from them, their gold values do not go down.

Unlike you or me who when we loan money, we lose the ability to use that money temporarily and we carry the risk that it will never be repaid. It's a totally different scenario.

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I see what you are saying. However, fiat currency is a different topic than usury. I’m aware of many of the downsides of fiat currency. Just wondering about the term usury specifically and what system is an alternative to usury.

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I read your other comments before replying to you initially and I understood you to be asking how do we reward and protect the loaner if not with usury (interest) .

That's why I explained (albiet briefly) between you and me, interest at a reasonable rate is acceptable IMO. It pays you for not having access to your money (like rent) and it protects you against lost. Between you and me we both value the money equally - we are in our reality exchanging things of equal value.

Fiat currency comes in with your government or bankers example, where you ask the questions what alternative is there that wouldn't destroy the entity making the loan. So I said the issue here is, the entities will not be destroyed because here the value is not equal between the parties. The one party is merely issuing out promises to pay that are backed by nothing. If the money is not repaid they loose nothing, their gold stocks do not go down. Yes some numbers on their ledger will indicate loss but in reality there is no loss.

On the other hand, the debtor who is unable to pay back the loan is now required to forfeit assets to the lender, things of real value - house, land, car etc - for the repayment of something of imaginary value to the bank or government.

There is no difference between governments and bankers, the bankers issues the same money to government out of the same non-existing pot of gold and they dont ask for government assets when governments default and they have to bail them out - they just go into more "debt". So there is no exchange of assets of real value. Unlike when the individual or citizens is involved.

Today, you cannot separate fiat currency and usury, they are not different topics, because fiat currency is our reality like it or not.

The question we should be asking is how do we get out of a fiat currency system not what are the alternatives to usury.

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I understand the problems with fiat currency and the situation we face with quantitative easing and such. it’s certainly not a good system for the average citizen.

I guess my lack of understanding was specific to the term “usury”, it’s definition and the alternative. I have seen people use the term in a negative way and I just needed clarity. But, the definition may not be a simple “paying interest on borrowed money”? Maybe usury means more. Maybe when people use the term they are meaning something more akin to predatory lending? Or against banking schemes? Or something along those lines?

I just want to know what people mean when they use the word usury. I’m starting to believe that it’s just a general term that means whatever people want it to mean, having a general negative connotation regarding the current financial situation. I’m getting all sorts of varying answers, none of which seem to be specific to interest on borrowed money.

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Fiat currency IMO would amount to unreasonable circumstances - but really any circumstances that would unduly /unfairly enrich the lender.

Unreasonable rates are pretty much self explanatory - except I guess people could have different views as what an unreasonable rate is.

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I guess there are a lot of ways to see the financial system. I see the exorbitant spending (and money printing) as more of the current problem than interest rates but the problems are deep and complicated and have many faces to them. They use rates to try and curb inflation but inflation isn’t really caused by interest rates so that’s an interesting dynamic.

The Community Reinvestment Act was an attempt to force financial institutions to lend to everyone at “reasonable” rates, no matter their ability to pay, and it was only a few years later that the sub-prime mortgage crisis exploded the financial world, which then ended up with the government injecting billions into the system to keep it going. What a mess. It was like the inverse of usury, or something along those lines…

Such crazy stuff goes on in politics/finances and we have little say but we all eventually pay the price in one way or the other.

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Usury is defined as lending money at an unreasonable rate or in unreasonable circumstances.

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That’s helpful. Thank you

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Sorry should be * or charging interest in unreasonable circumstances

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that's what I don't understand about the definition of usury also. If a private individual lends money what is the problem with getting interest? People being what they are shouldn't the lender have some protection or incentive to lend the money in the first place? Isn't making an investment and getting some kind of return for the use of your money the same thing? The risk for you is losing all of your money. Which happens.

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Exactly my thoughts... After all the replies to my question, I think the meaning of usury seems to be referring to a situation where the lender is taking unfair advantage of the borrower. I personally think that most financial problems are really complex and there is probably quite a bit of unreasonable lending and also quite a bit of unreasonable borrowing right now. I know of many people who borrow way more money than they can reasonably afford to pay back, and for things that are not essential. But, I think the thing that is destroying most average people financially is the fact that the governments can print money and spend with wild abandon (including spending on things that are never accounted for) and inflate the currency, which is essentially stealing from the citizens. Every year, peoples' work and effort is worth less but they still have to keep working under such conditions unless they are independently wealthy and have inflation proof investments, or friends in high places. The financial system we have is pretty bad...

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inflation is theft by government is exactly right. Usury does mean or at least one meaning is outrageous interest. One example is credit card debt, which I forgot about because I don’t allow that to happen. Another example is government if you don’t pay them the debt compounds.

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Credit card debt probably would be considered usury but it’s almost always voluntary on the part of the borrower. And in probably most cases, not being used for essentials only. If people are not educated enough to avoid credit card debt, I guess I don’t feel very sorry for them. I do know there are exceptions, and some people may not have any other choice, and are in a terrible situation by no fault of their own. In those cases, hopefully they have family, a church, or a strong community to lend them a hand.

The way debt can compound from government loans seems terrible too, but why would people borrow from the government? Borrowing for education seems like such a terrible investment the majority of the time. I’m flabbergasted at how many people choose to enslave themselves with loans that they don’t know they can pay back.

While I really feel that most people need to take responsibility for their lives, and not blame their poor financial decisions on others (usury), I can see that many people grow up in households where wise finances are not taught. That seems as morally wrong as usury. Or maybe more so. That’s my two cents (pun intended). There’s a lot of questionable actions by many people in our current culture.

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good commentary.

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Charging Interest on a loan was a NO, NO to G-d. It’s in the Bible. Has nothing to do with the loan getting paid back just that the person giving the loan is making money on it. That’s why J..’s we’re disliked because they made masses on loans.

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Usury is charging interest on a loan. If you are using a finite substance for the loan, usury wouldn't be allowed because there is no way to pay it out of a finite substance. Thus the biblical prohibition for usury. If you have a "monetary" system based on nothing, backed by nothing usury works because there is always somewhere the created out of thin air money comes from to cover the usury.

A quick simple course in economics based on reality:

"The Federal Government, with the cooperation of the Federal Reserve, has the inherent power to create money--almost any amount of it."

~ The National Debt, Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, p. 8

ALMOST? Why only ALMOST? What keeps them from creating ALL they want? You? Me? Your dog? A full moon?

Federal Reserve Notes are not federal, represent no monetary reserves and no longer conform to the definition of notes. Failing to state who, will pay what, when or to whom - they ceased to be legal tender notes, (offers of money) almost 60 years ago. They are in fact instruments of legalized THEFT.

"...Keynes argues that inflation is a 'method of taxation' which the government uses to 'secure the command over real resources, resources just as real as those obtained by [ordinary] taxation'. 'What is raised by printing notes, ' he writes, is just as much taken from the public as is a beer duty or an income tax.' "

- 1980 Annual Report, Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond, pg 10

"All the paper money issued today is Federal Reserve notes. The real backing for the nation's money is faith in the strength, soundness and stability of the American economy."

~ The Hats the Federal Reserve Wears, Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, pg 4

Faith is what backs our monetary system. YOUR faith. Do you still have faith?

"When plunder has become a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."

~ Frederic Bastiat in "The Law"

"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation,

governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens."

~ 1980 Annual Report, Federal Reserve

Bank of Richmond, pg 6

Isn't confiscation of the wealth of the citizens a nice way of saying STEALING?

"Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience." ~ John Locke (1690)

If the money you earn has no value and you are forced through fiat paper legislation to take it for your labor, are you not having your property (labor) destroyed and are you not being reduced to nothing but slavery? Is not the state at war with the people?

5th Plank Communist Manifesto: Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

The Federal Reserve System, created by the Federal Reserve Act of Congress in 1913, is indeed such a “national bank” and it politically manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States. This is exactly what Marx had in mind and completely fulfills this plank, another major socialist objective. Yet, most Americans naively believe the U.S. of A. is far from a Marxist or socialist nation.

"The writers of the constitution knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote in Article I Section 10 paragraph 1 'No state shall... make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts. ' People able to barter with gold and silver coin control government and are free. Loss of the right to trade in gold and silver coin enslaves people to the creators of psychological 'money.'":

-Merrill Jenkins, Sr.,

Money - The Greatest Hoax on Earth

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Wrong. The banking system is based totally on FRAUD. So it is the MAJOR problem. https://www.courageouslion.us/p/blood-running-in-the-streets-mobs

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Our banking system is built on usury.

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Good thing there will be no hitting of fans by shit.

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