TTLG, might I ask how you became certain it was the mold causing problems rather than the decomposing materials that drew the mold to them for remediation? Did you happen to check and see if the materials themselves might be problematic to the home environment (such as off gassing various chemicals)? Just curious...
TTLG, might I ask how you became certain it was the mold causing problems rather than the decomposing materials that drew the mold to them for remediation? Did you happen to check and see if the materials themselves might be problematic to the home environment (such as off gassing various chemicals)? Just curious...
Sure. Came at this indirectly since my son and I both were battling multiple tick-borne infections which can be considered another biotoxin related illness. Another odyssey that I only found out was a problem for us indirectly. Anyway, It often turns out that people who succumb to these things are often burdened with multiple isues - this is more common than not. When I hooked up with a doc across the country who specialized in this, he told me to also check for molds based on his patients and the fact that many people are in compromised living spaces - he suggested this based on my son's bloodwork and looking at particular markers - did different types of testing mold testing including air testing at bed level (not where they usually air test which is an expensive useless test) -btw standard air testing at 5 ft is useless for sick people but is how you are able to verify your house is remediated for legal sale purposes, ERMI testing, is is a vacuumed dust sampling you can do yourself is better and differnetiates between outdoor molds and molds which grow on damp indoor building materials and most important of all, a mycotoxin panel from Realtime Labs from urine tests which show which can show which type of molds you are inhaling or ingesting (as there are high mold foods as well) - unfortunately, you don't excrete mycotoxins easily and they recycle in the body and need some sort of binder to help escort them out even after you are in a clean environment - leaving isn't enough because some people don't detox easily or fast enough. This is a a test that is recognized and upheld in court if you need to prove harm. If you show a huge amount of indoor molds on an ERMI test (which is cheap and easy to do) it is best to seek out the source. Water damage basically creates a reservoir of molds and bacterias and even though you might not be inhaling the physical mold itself, you are inhaling/ingesting small particulates, mycotoxins, and VOCs. A huge percentage of houses have a water damage problem, but you're right about other problems - toxic materials, laundry stuff, the problem is that its a stacked problem, and once you're ill, everything is another brick on your back. in my experience, if you have an undiagnosed illness, it should be a first step to check for the bit ticket items, which in the past used to be pesticides, toxic chemicals, problems in water, and indoor sick buildings from mold or something else. These are first order problems. From personal experience, I don't happen to agree with the premise of this article that it isn't a real problem. And of course, now we've got much bigger problems that we can't deal with ourselves. This at least is one that has a limited scope. In the case of the first of my houses, I would have never suspected a mold problem as there was no visible damage, I never smelled anything, but I had a very sick child with a huge host of symptoms and it turned out that his bedroom, with a weather facing wall had compromised flashing not sealed and the entire wall was wet and molding. There was enough stachybotryis and other molds of course that his mold/Lyme doc was shocked. I tested out of due diligence at his suggestion based on my son's bloodwork markers. These are neurotoxins and can affect every subsystem in the body. Hope this is useful information.
TTLG, I thought I might share this with you for consideration. I came across this gentlemen a few years back after doing a bit of a dive on mold. It is very thought provoking, if nothing else...
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
"Over the years, one of the most frequent questions we have been asked is: “What does toxic mould look like?” There is no such thing as “toxic mould” any more than there is “toxic milk” or “toxic walnuts.”
While it is true that some moulds may elicit an allergic reaction, the same may be said about cheese, or peanuts, or pine pollen, or cat dander. The term “toxic mould” was a creation of drama seeking newspaper and television journalists attempting to sensationalize what is otherwise a very boring and mundane occurrence....
All houses have mould; all houses contain billions of mould spores. Any time drywall is installed in an home, thousands of mould spores are installed on every panel, since the very fiber matrix of the drywall contains mould. All houses have the types of moulds identified by the sensationalist media as “toxic moulds.” Every cubic foot of air in a normal, healthy dry home contains hundreds of mould spores. So, you now know that your property has mould, and you now know that your property has “toxic mould.” Since it is there, we also know that if a “Certified Mould Inspector” or other type of poorly trained mould consultant performs a “mould test,” we already know that it will be “positive.”
It is important to note that mould “tests” are most commonly used only by poorly trained mould consultants who otherwise lack legitimate training in mould and fungi, and use the lab report primarily to bamboozle and impress their clients; the laboratory results are otherwise usually completely uninterpretable. We have provided a discussion on the reason why such mould “tests” are invalid; just click here."
In spite of the recent media hype over the presence of mould (mold) in residences and the workplace, there is virtually no scientific or medical data that supports the level of fear and concern generated by misleading and sensationalized news reports.
All houses, offices, and workplaces have mould. All houses and workplaces contain the dreaded “toxic black mould” (a nonsensical term invented by the news media). Virtually every human, in virtually every location on earth inhales hundreds to hundreds of thousands of mould spores and mould fragments on a daily basis. And yet, contrary to common belief, there is currently no evidence that the presence of these moulds and the exposures to the same poses the threat to the health of members of the general public as suggested by irresponsible journalists, and dramatic news reports largely devoid of objective facts.
Ignoring for a moment that virtually all "mould tests" and all "mould samples" are completely invalid, and uninterpretable and cannot be used for decision making, indoor moulds almost always get the initial blame for complaints about indoor air quality. However, in the Summer of 2011, the US Department of Labor, OSHA published the guidelines Indoor Air Quality in Commercial and Institutional Buildings1, wherein OSHA referenced the Indoor Air Quality Investigation protocol in its Technical Manual and points out that all microbial contaminants combined (including viruses, fungi, mould, bacteria, nematodes, amoeba, pollen, dander, and mites) were found to be the primary sources of indoor air quality problems only 5% of the time. The unwarranted fear is propagated by a variety of “mould remediators” and “mould inspectors” who usually have no legitimate knowledge in mould or mycology but prey off the public’s fear and perform nonsensical and invalid mould “testing.”
Also, Gary Rosen, who I consulted with years ago - has hugely useful free information on his site which you might be interested for educating yourself on where to look, how to remediate etc .... He's the expert witness in court cases for building assessments ... https://free-mold-training.org/. A lot of people think they can just kill the mold - killing the mold is not enough, you have to physically remove it safely so that you're not dealing with the toxins which persist even if the mold is dead. Another good starter site is this one: https://momsaware.org/aware-mold-mycotoxins.html. There are a lot more knowledgable docs in this area - Shoemaker/Schaller/others though they are often very opinionated and quirky and often persecuted for their stances.
TTLG, might I ask how you became certain it was the mold causing problems rather than the decomposing materials that drew the mold to them for remediation? Did you happen to check and see if the materials themselves might be problematic to the home environment (such as off gassing various chemicals)? Just curious...
Sure. Came at this indirectly since my son and I both were battling multiple tick-borne infections which can be considered another biotoxin related illness. Another odyssey that I only found out was a problem for us indirectly. Anyway, It often turns out that people who succumb to these things are often burdened with multiple isues - this is more common than not. When I hooked up with a doc across the country who specialized in this, he told me to also check for molds based on his patients and the fact that many people are in compromised living spaces - he suggested this based on my son's bloodwork and looking at particular markers - did different types of testing mold testing including air testing at bed level (not where they usually air test which is an expensive useless test) -btw standard air testing at 5 ft is useless for sick people but is how you are able to verify your house is remediated for legal sale purposes, ERMI testing, is is a vacuumed dust sampling you can do yourself is better and differnetiates between outdoor molds and molds which grow on damp indoor building materials and most important of all, a mycotoxin panel from Realtime Labs from urine tests which show which can show which type of molds you are inhaling or ingesting (as there are high mold foods as well) - unfortunately, you don't excrete mycotoxins easily and they recycle in the body and need some sort of binder to help escort them out even after you are in a clean environment - leaving isn't enough because some people don't detox easily or fast enough. This is a a test that is recognized and upheld in court if you need to prove harm. If you show a huge amount of indoor molds on an ERMI test (which is cheap and easy to do) it is best to seek out the source. Water damage basically creates a reservoir of molds and bacterias and even though you might not be inhaling the physical mold itself, you are inhaling/ingesting small particulates, mycotoxins, and VOCs. A huge percentage of houses have a water damage problem, but you're right about other problems - toxic materials, laundry stuff, the problem is that its a stacked problem, and once you're ill, everything is another brick on your back. in my experience, if you have an undiagnosed illness, it should be a first step to check for the bit ticket items, which in the past used to be pesticides, toxic chemicals, problems in water, and indoor sick buildings from mold or something else. These are first order problems. From personal experience, I don't happen to agree with the premise of this article that it isn't a real problem. And of course, now we've got much bigger problems that we can't deal with ourselves. This at least is one that has a limited scope. In the case of the first of my houses, I would have never suspected a mold problem as there was no visible damage, I never smelled anything, but I had a very sick child with a huge host of symptoms and it turned out that his bedroom, with a weather facing wall had compromised flashing not sealed and the entire wall was wet and molding. There was enough stachybotryis and other molds of course that his mold/Lyme doc was shocked. I tested out of due diligence at his suggestion based on my son's bloodwork markers. These are neurotoxins and can affect every subsystem in the body. Hope this is useful information.
TTLG, I thought I might share this with you for consideration. I came across this gentlemen a few years back after doing a bit of a dive on mold. It is very thought provoking, if nothing else...
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
"Over the years, one of the most frequent questions we have been asked is: “What does toxic mould look like?” There is no such thing as “toxic mould” any more than there is “toxic milk” or “toxic walnuts.”
While it is true that some moulds may elicit an allergic reaction, the same may be said about cheese, or peanuts, or pine pollen, or cat dander. The term “toxic mould” was a creation of drama seeking newspaper and television journalists attempting to sensationalize what is otherwise a very boring and mundane occurrence....
All houses have mould; all houses contain billions of mould spores. Any time drywall is installed in an home, thousands of mould spores are installed on every panel, since the very fiber matrix of the drywall contains mould. All houses have the types of moulds identified by the sensationalist media as “toxic moulds.” Every cubic foot of air in a normal, healthy dry home contains hundreds of mould spores. So, you now know that your property has mould, and you now know that your property has “toxic mould.” Since it is there, we also know that if a “Certified Mould Inspector” or other type of poorly trained mould consultant performs a “mould test,” we already know that it will be “positive.”
It is important to note that mould “tests” are most commonly used only by poorly trained mould consultants who otherwise lack legitimate training in mould and fungi, and use the lab report primarily to bamboozle and impress their clients; the laboratory results are otherwise usually completely uninterpretable. We have provided a discussion on the reason why such mould “tests” are invalid; just click here."
https://www.forensic-applications.com/moulds/habits.html
And this...
"Overview
In spite of the recent media hype over the presence of mould (mold) in residences and the workplace, there is virtually no scientific or medical data that supports the level of fear and concern generated by misleading and sensationalized news reports.
All houses, offices, and workplaces have mould. All houses and workplaces contain the dreaded “toxic black mould” (a nonsensical term invented by the news media). Virtually every human, in virtually every location on earth inhales hundreds to hundreds of thousands of mould spores and mould fragments on a daily basis. And yet, contrary to common belief, there is currently no evidence that the presence of these moulds and the exposures to the same poses the threat to the health of members of the general public as suggested by irresponsible journalists, and dramatic news reports largely devoid of objective facts.
Ignoring for a moment that virtually all "mould tests" and all "mould samples" are completely invalid, and uninterpretable and cannot be used for decision making, indoor moulds almost always get the initial blame for complaints about indoor air quality. However, in the Summer of 2011, the US Department of Labor, OSHA published the guidelines Indoor Air Quality in Commercial and Institutional Buildings1, wherein OSHA referenced the Indoor Air Quality Investigation protocol in its Technical Manual and points out that all microbial contaminants combined (including viruses, fungi, mould, bacteria, nematodes, amoeba, pollen, dander, and mites) were found to be the primary sources of indoor air quality problems only 5% of the time. The unwarranted fear is propagated by a variety of “mould remediators” and “mould inspectors” who usually have no legitimate knowledge in mould or mycology but prey off the public’s fear and perform nonsensical and invalid mould “testing.”
https://forensic-applications.com/moulds/sok.html
Also, Gary Rosen, who I consulted with years ago - has hugely useful free information on his site which you might be interested for educating yourself on where to look, how to remediate etc .... He's the expert witness in court cases for building assessments ... https://free-mold-training.org/. A lot of people think they can just kill the mold - killing the mold is not enough, you have to physically remove it safely so that you're not dealing with the toxins which persist even if the mold is dead. Another good starter site is this one: https://momsaware.org/aware-mold-mycotoxins.html. There are a lot more knowledgable docs in this area - Shoemaker/Schaller/others though they are often very opinionated and quirky and often persecuted for their stances.